A Little Bit Richer

This series is brought to you by L&G, helping you build a future that's A Little Bit Richer.

Iona Bain: Hello and a warm welcome to A Little Bit Richer with me, Iona Bain, where we break down the money decisions that shape your financial future, brought to you by Legal & General. Now in life, there are many different types of admin we've got to do, some light and some pretty heavy. And thinking about our own mortality is not something any of us particularly want to do, but if something does happen to you, it's important to make sure that the people that you care about most will benefit. For making sure your pension savings go to the person who really needs them to having a Will in place. We're unpacking all of those crucial admin bits we tend to put off doing. So joining me today to break it all down and make it a little less overwhelming is Mike Hiner, founder of Strategic Asset Protection. Mike's built up quite the following across social media, helping ordinary people to better understand what is needed to ensure their loved ones are in the best possible financial position if something were to happen. Welcome, Mike.

Mike Hiner: Thank you. Thanks for inviting me.

Iona Bain: So Mike, to start us off in 30 seconds or less, can you explain what life and death admin we should have sorted and why? You ready?

Mike Hiner: Yep.

Iona Bain: Let's go.

Mike Hiner: Okay. So really there are four things that you really need. The first one is always a Will. You need to have a Will and obviously to signpost the assets and the wealth that you've got to go to the people that you want to benefit. So, so important. Second one is lasting power of attorney to make sure that obviously there's people that you know, love and trust that can make decisions for you if you lose capacity or become ill. The third one is about your pensions and your life insurances, and making sure that you've nominated the right people to benefit from those different assets. And the fourth one is to make sure that you've got a folder or something in place where you've got all that admin stored as it were so that you're not leaving a mess for the people that you're leaving behind.

Iona Bain: You know what? You went over 30 seconds, but it was so comprehensive. I didn't want to stop you. So that is a very, very, very good job there. Let's start with a very broad question, which is why are so many people, especially younger people, put off doing this kind of admin?

Mike Hiner: Well, I think a lot of it is just down to the myth. People think that having a Will is something that you have in later life. A lot of people think that it's going to be expensive for a start. It's going to be a hassle. I've got to go to a solicitor. I've got to take time out my diary to do all that sort of stuff. But the reality is it doesn't have to be expensive. It's not how it used to be. You haven't got to go to a solicitor. There's plenty of Will writers around there as long as they're reputable Will writers, they’re members of the society of Will writers or such like, that they've got their credentials.

The psychology of it as well a little bit where people think, oh, if I talk about death and it's going to happen kind of thing. But again, the reality is you're not really talking about death. You're just talking about where you want what you've created over your lifetime to go, who's going to benefit. It's so, so important. And remember as well also that your Will is not about you. It's about the people that you're ultimately leaving behind.

Iona Bain: There'll be some people who'll be watching and listening who will think, " Well, I don't have a partner. I don't have kids. I don't have big assets, so I don't necessarily need a Will." But what would happen to their assets after they die if they don't have that Will in place? 

Mike Hiner: They'll then die what they call intestate, which means they get the government Will. So the government Will is just a set of rules that ultimately determine who actually benefits. So it's always worth just getting a Will, even if you've got very little amount of assets, just to signpost the assets that you do have to get them to go to where you ultimately want to benefit.

Iona Bain: So if your Will is intestate, can you break down where your assets would go after you die?

Mike Hiner: Yeah. So if you've got no children and no spouse, your assets ultimately will pass firstly to your parents. And then it'll then go on to any brothers or sisters that you've got, any half brothers and sisters that you've got, nieces, nephews, and so on down the line. But then if there's nobody, then ultimately it'll end up going to the crown.

Iona Bain: And if you have parents that you get on with and love in your lifetime, that might not be an issue. But if you have had an estrangement in your family, for example, that can be a situation where you wouldn't be that comfortable with that state of affairs. And in your experience, it's not just about a house. There can be other things that you own that are of value that you want to make sure go to the right place.

Mike Hiner: Yeah, absolutely. You may have inherited some heirlooms. You got some cash in the bank, you might have a car, you've got different things. Any personal possessions that you've got that you want to go to specific people, then really you need to be writing them in the Will.

Iona Bain: I think that's a very human thing to just want to know what's going to happen to your stuff after you pass away.

Mike Hiner: Definitely.

Iona Bain: And so talk us through what the process of getting a Will is actually like.

Mike Hiner: It doesn't really need to be complicated. If it's just a simple basic Will that you're really looking to do, a lot of people think that you've got to go to a solicitor. And again, going to a solicitor is intimidating. You just need to really go to a recognised Will writer that's a member of The Society of Will writers or other organisations that are out there. But really make sure they're a reputable  Will writer. And it really is just as easy as really explaining to them where you want your assets to be left so it can be drafted in the correct way. It can be signed in the right way, it's dated in the right way, just to make sure it's legally valid at the point that it's completed.

Iona Bain: Because I think sometimes people are worried that if they don't do their Will properly, then they can actually create more problems further down the line. So how can we make sure that we don't have any problems with a Will in the future?

Mike Hiner: You always need to be taking professional advice when you're doing this sort of thing. The problem with a DIY Will is, have you filled it in correctly? Have you signed it correctly? Is it legally valid?

Iona Bain: And can we talk through what would happen if you didn't have a Will in place? So for example, if you've bought a property with a partner, do they automatically get your share of the property?

Mike Hiner: Well, a lot of that depends on how the property is owned. So there's a couple of ways that you can own a property with somebody else. The first way is what they call jointly. And most people in the UK will own their property jointly, which means that we both own it 100%. So if I died, it doesn't really matter what I put in my Will, the house will automatically pass to the surviving joint owner, yourself as it were if we owned a house together. And it will end up going in your Will through your lines and everything else. And the other way to own a property is what we call tenants in common. So I own 50% and yourself owns 50%. And that way I can put my 50% into my Will. I can Will my 50% onto whomever I wish because I physically own that 50%. Whereas when we own it jointly, we both own it 100%. So it's a lot more difficult to put that into a Will. I can't Will my half on because it will automatically pass to you. That's always sometimes an issue.

Iona Bain: And marital status can really matter as well, here because is the concept of having a common law partner, is that actually recognised in law or not?

Mike Hiner: No. So if I haven't got a Will and I'm not married, then when I pass my assets ultimately will pass by the rules of intestate, but that does not recognise my unmarried partner. So she'll end up or he'll end up with ultimately nothing from my estate.

Iona Bain: And that is not to say that you necessarily need to get married, but it's all the more reason why you need to have a Will in place.

Mike Hiner: The Will just signposts the assets to whom you want to benefit. If I'm not married, I really want my partner to be benefiting from what the assets that I've created, especially if we've got children. Because again, having children is another real reason to have a Will because you need to be naming guardians. That's massively important. If anything, that's the sole reason why you should have a Will if you've got young children, because by having a Will is the only way that you can name guardians.

Iona Bain: And let's talk about some of the other aspects of life and death admin. What else do we need to be thinking about to make life easier for our loved ones should we pass away?

Mike Hiner: Well, again, they need to be thinking about really having a folder in place where they've got their Will, they've got their life insurance policies, their pension documents, bank statements, birth certificates, all that kind of info or admin needs to be kept somewhere safe where it's easily accessible. Because the idea of when you ultimately pass away is that you don't want your family to be searching around and trying to find documentation and find out whether you had a bank account with this bank. You want it all to be laid out. And the only way really to do that is to make sure that everything's within a nice folder, as it were. So it's all there ready for somebody to view. But the other thing to think about as well is digital assets. We live in a world these days where everything's on people's phones. So it's making sure that you've also got the passwords and bits and pieces written down for your Instagram and such like. So again, because that's a really, really important part of it as well.

Iona Bain: Yeah. I have met people in the course of my work whose partners have passed away and they have sorted out all their affairs for their family. But one thing that was forgotten about very understandably was all their social media profiles and that meant that they were all still active and it was really hard for those families to get those shut down. And that doesn't have any monetary value per se, but actually still seeing that loved one on social media, it can be quite distressing and it's something to definitely think about.

Mike Hiner: 100%. Because you can also do a thing with Apple, can't you, these days, where you can actually name somebody as a contact that can actually then go into your account and such like.

Iona Bain: And when it comes to certain products like pensions as well, is there any admin that we need to do there to make sure that the money goes to who we want it to go to?

Mike Hiner: Yeah. You need to make sure that you've nominated your beneficiaries because the pensions and the life insurances won't pass via the Will. So you've got to make sure that your beneficiaries are up to date because again, a lot of people will do their nomination right at the start when they do the pension as it were, but they may well have got married and got divorced at that point, which means the ex partner's still on there. So we really need to be making sure that that's updated. You know who those nominated beneficiaries are going to be.

Iona Bain: And on that point, how often should we be reviewing this admin to make sure that it's up to date?

Mike Hiner: Ideally about three to five years. Every three to five years, it should be updated. And it's the same with the Will as well, because life events happen. When you start off having your Will, you don't have any children, you're not married. The other thing to remember with regard to marriage is that it will revoke your Will. That's really important to understand. So if you've got a Will now and then you get married in the future, that Will potentially could be revoked. But if you've got an anticipation of marriage clause within your Will, then it would continue to run. But most people don't have an anticipation of marriage because they just create a Will, and they get married thinking they've still got their Will in place. But ultimately that Will will become null and void.

Iona Bain: That is a very good point because I think a lot of people, myself included, would just assume I've got married, therefore my spouse will be legally entitled to whatever they need.

Mike Hiner: No, it needs to be rewritten at that point. When you start your Will, you might not have children. So again, when you have children, again, it needs to be revisited because you then need to be naming guardians for those children. You may have people, dare I say it, an executor or something that may well pass away. So you need to be replacing those executors. It's just a document that evolves to start off with, it's just a simple basic Will that you need leaving assets directly to beneficiaries, but then as things progress and your estate grows and such like, you might then want to add trusts and bits and pieces as well later on.

Iona Bain: When we were thinking about this episode in advance, it was quite difficult trying to come up with a title for that folder of documents that you need in order to keep everything in place for your loved ones should you pass away. And we came up with the phrase peace of mind folder.

Mike Hiner: Yeah, perfect.

Iona Bain: Because I think psychologically, again, it would be quite hard for people to go about creating that tomorrow when they've got so many other things that they need to think about in the here and now that they think are more pressing. So what would your advice be for anyone that is putting that off?

Mike Hiner: Just start. Because again, it's one of those things where once you've done, it's done. And again, you just add to it. The hardest part is, like you say, just starting it. As soon as you've got it started, it's then very easy just to keep adding the documents to it.

Iona Bain: Yeah, absolutely.

Mike Hiner: It's an important part. It really is. Because again, you've got to think, I'm not doing this for me. I'm doing this for the people that I'm actually leaving behind.

Iona Bain: And am I right in thinking as well that there is a time of the year when you can get your Will done for free as part of Free Wills month?

Mike Hiner: Some firms will do that. Some charities will do that for you for free. Absolutely.

Iona Bain: And is there a kind of price range that you would advise people look at in terms of this is what a Will will typically cost? And if it's any more than that, that might be a bit too expensive.

Mike Hiner: Again, it depends on what you're trying to do with the Will. A basic, simple Will starting off as it were, you should be looking at 150 pounds, up to 300 pounds as it were just for that. But then obviously if you're starting to add trusts and bits and pieces, then it gets a little bit more expensive. But really as an average, it should be somewhere between 150 and 300 pounds. You don't really need to be paying any more than that.

Iona Bain: And you mentioned lasting power of attorney. What situations would that be really important and where that would really come into its own?

Mike Hiner: My lasting power of attorney for me personally is more important to me than the Will that leaves everything to everyone else because the Will for me is for everybody else, but the lasting power of attorney is about me. So if I lose capacity, I want to know that it's my wife and my loved ones and people that I know, love and trust that are actually making the decisions about what happens to me. The power of attorney, again, it's one of those things that's really overlooked. People don't realize unless they have a family member or something that's gone into care or has lost capacity in some way or whatever, and then they're struggling around to try and find the lasting power of attorney or how can we put this in potentially having to go to the court of protection to get a deputyship put together so that somebody can make decisions on that person's behalf.

Iona Bain: And again, presumably that's not just an issue that would exclusively affect people who are getting older, perhaps developing dementia or Alzheimer's for example. This is an issue that can affect younger people.

Mike Hiner: Everybody. 100%. Absolutely everybody. My daughter banged her head a couple of years ago now this was, and she now suffers from FND, so functional neurological disorder. So every evening she loses the use of her legs and she has seizures. So she has a power of attorney now. She's just turned 21, so we've had a power of attorney in place for a bit. But again, you just don't know. And that's the thing.

Iona Bain: Absolutely. It's so interesting hearing that story because it really brings home it can happen to any of us.

Mike Hiner: Anybody.

Iona Bain: And Mike, I have a suspicion that this is a particularly British thing because from what I understand, other cultures are a bit better at confronting death and understanding that it will happen and preparing for it. And in some cases, almost embracing it and seeing it as an opportunity to really take care of our loved ones, and do the right thing by them. So do you think we just need a bit of a cultural revolution in the UK?

Mike Hiner: That's the thing. It's about making sure that I'm taking care of the people that I'm leaving behind. That's my driver in life really is about the legacy side of things that I'm trying to create, is making sure that even when I'm not here, I'm still dad. It passes to my children. It's not going to be lost. It's not going to be disinherited from them. It goes to them and it stays with them. But not just for my children, but for my grandchildren and their children and so on and so on. That's so important to me.

Iona Bain: Yeah. That's what we need to get past the point of people thinking about death and onto that next stage where your family lives on and you want them to have a brilliant life.

Mike Hiner: Absolutely. And I can only do that by having the correct planning in place.

Iona Bain: That's such an empowering thought. Whilst people go away, maybe have a cup of tea after listening to this, what's the one thing that you would want them to really reflect on as they wait for that kettle to boil?

Mike Hiner: You need to have a Will. It needs to be a well- documented Will. It needs to explain exactly what you've got, where you want it to go, but also the lasting power of attorney that is really, really important for every single person to have. But also then just make sure that you've got your nomination of benefits on your pensions and on your life insurance. Make sure that's all sorted so that what you have created and what you're paying for on a monthly basis goes to the people that you ultimately want to benefit.

Iona Bain: Yeah. Embrace the life and death admin.

Mike Hiner: Embrace it. For sure.

Iona Bain: Brilliant. Thank you so much, Mike.

Mike Hiner: You're welcome.

Iona Bain: And we hope this episode has given you lots to think about and crucially the confidence to make that first step towards sorting out your life and death admin. This podcast is brought to you by L&G. We would love it if you shared this episode to help others get a little bit richer too. You can keep up with the show on YouTube, TikTok and Instagram @ legalandgeneral. And if you've got a question or a topic that you would like answered on the show, all you need to do is get in touch on our socials. We would love to hear from you. Until next time, see you soon and thanks for listening.