A Little Bit Richer

This series is brought to you by L&G, helping you build a future that's A Little Bit Richer.

Iona Bain: Hello, and welcome back to A Little Bit Richer with me, Iona Bain, brought to you by Legal & General, where we dive into the money decisions that shape your future. Now, unfortunately, scams are on the up, and if they haven't already, they could well affect you or someone you know. And with the rise in AI, it's becoming increasingly difficult to decipher the real from the fraudulent, from crypto scams to deep fakes, and even romance scams. The criminals are continuing to come up with creative and highly sophisticated ways to steal our dosh. And there is a common misconception that older people are more likely to fall victim to scams. So today we're explaining why this is simply not the case. We are deep diving into some of the latest and most prevalent scams that could affect us, the tricks the criminals use to deceive and confuse us, and importantly, how we can protect ourselves and spot those red flags.

And joining me to break everything down and ensure that we are up to speed on all things scams. Well, she's the perfect person for the job. We're talking today to Harleen Nottay, presenter and reporter for the BBC's award-winning Scam Interceptors. Welcome, Harleen.

Harleen Nottay: Thank you so much for having me, Iona.

Iona Bain: Well, thank you for coming in. We're going to start off with a very, very quick 30 second answer about why everyone needs to be aware of the latest scams, even if they've never been a victim of fraud. Are you ready to do this?

Harleen Nottay: Let's do it.

Iona Bain: All right, let's go.

Harleen Nottay: Whilst there might be the misconception that older people are more heavily targeted, the reality is that 20% of 18 to 34- year- olds have actually been deceived by a scammer versus 10% of over 35s. So you might not think you're going to be targeted, but if you're a younger person, you're being way more targeted and 10% more likely to actually fall victim to one of these scams.

Iona Bain: That was perfect. And really good to start with that reminder that actually younger people are vulnerable to scams. So let's talk through some of the newer, more prevalent types of scams, putting AI to one side for now. Of all of these, which ones might specifically affect millennials?

Harleen Nottay: The reality is that scams do impact everybody, and no matter what age you are, you are going to be targeted by some sort of a scam. With regards to millennials, things like job scams have been incredibly prevalent. Job scams are where scammers will use platforms like TikTok, Instagram, some sort of social media to draw you into doing small menial tasks, eventually getting to a point where you then need to invest some money to get your money back. Now, this is happening quite often, and it's really troublesome. Anytime you're in a position where any job or employer is saying to you that you need to put money in to get money back out, that is guaranteed a scam. There's not a lot of jobs that operate like that. So that is a number one massive red flag.

 Another issue that's impacting younger people are rental scams. And this is where scammers will put up postings, ads for sometimes properties that actually do exist. Sometimes they're Airbnbs and you will go along, you might even go to a viewing for an Airbnb thinking that you're going to a viewing for a property, and they will get you to invest six months upfront to try and secure. Obviously, we're in a market right now where rental properties are hot, hot stuff. It's difficult to get a property. So it is very, very easy to fall into this trap. And I would say with regards to this, do your due diligence, reverse image search. If that image is coming up on multiple different websites, just try and go through a reputable estate agent to make sure that you're not getting caught out in these pitfalls. And we've got investment in crypto scams. These are forever impacting people of all ages from an older demographic right down through to millennials. It's a massive problem.

Iona Bain: And you've got some figures that really illustrate the impact this is having on people. Talk me through how much is being lost to these scams every day.

Harleen Nottay: Yeah. Up to £2. 4 million was lost in 2025, according to City of London Police last year. It is really massive numbers. That breaks down to slightly more than £ 1, 600 per minute that has been lost to investment scams. It's a huge problem.

Iona Bain: If you are persuading somebody to put all their money into an investment scam, you can see why it's having this kind of financial impact.

Harleen Nottay: Massively. And the thing is as well is the platforms that these scammers are using are incredibly sophisticated. It would look like you are getting returns on the money that you're putting in, but it's the minute that you want to try and get that money out of that fake platform, that's where you're going to end up having problems. So you will plough lots of money into this platform thinking that you are getting these big returns when in actuality that's just not the case. And I would just say for any person that does want to invest their money into some sort of crypto or stock market, do your research. Don't invest into something that you don't understand. And if any company is guaranteeing you returns, huge red flag.

Iona Bain: Because actually there are no certainties with the stock market. And therefore anybody that says you will make this amount of money, it's too good to be true.

Harleen Nottay: Absolutely. Also, there is an issue with SIM swapping. Now, this is where scammers will actually replicate your number and put this onto another SIM. So it essentially deactivates the SIM in your phone because you don't actually have to have a physical digital SIM card in your phone anymore. There are eSIMs essentially. So it's easy for them to take that number and put it onto an eSIM in their own phone. They then have access to your social media apps via two- factor authentication, to your online banking. They might even have access to your contacts and it is causing a massive problem. If I got my figure correct, it's up by 35% in 2025. So it's a real up and coming scam.

Iona Bain: Wow. And how do you protect yourself against that particular scam? Because they don't actually physically need your SIM card. Is it the fact that they can just use your phone number? Once they've got that, that's when they can pull this off.

Harleen Nottay: Yes. And personal information on you. So that's why it's incredibly important to be very mindful about what information you put about yourself online and just not to be over- divulging.

Iona Bain: Interesting. So AI is becoming a massive part of our everyday lives. Obviously lots of people using it for good, but it's also being used by the scammers very, very effectively.

Harleen Nottay: Oh, yes.

Iona Bain: So let's chat about that. How is AI being used and what do we need to be aware of and how can we protect ourselves?

Harleen Nottay: There are many ways in which scammers are using AI. When it comes to particular scams, one of the most prevalent is voice cloning. So this is where the scammer will take your voice. If you've put that online in some shape or form, they can use that recording to then generate other recordings which sound just like you, targeting your loved ones and claiming that you're in some sort of an emergency, you need some emergency funds and putting the pressure on using the same tactics that we've seen with scammers time and time again, but just applying it differently with regards to obviously the voice cloning. And of course you're tapping into that emotional centre.

 If you hear your loved one's voice in pain, in distress, you are of course not going to stop and think about that rationally. You are just going to act. So voice cloning is a real problem. Now what I would say is one really easy way to keep yourself safe and keep all your family members safe is to set a safe word amongst your loved ones. And that is just very clean cut that when somebody is on the other side of the phone, if you use that safe word and they don't respond, they don't know what it is, you are on with a scammer.

Iona Bain: And deep fakes, I imagine as well, are becoming really sophisticated. I remember a couple of years ago doing a TV report where they created a deep fake of me and it was good, but it wasn't quite right and they weren't able to use my voice. That was just a couple of years ago. I'm absolutely certain now they would be able to replicate me quite effectively and use that for nefarious purposes. And that's very scary.

Harleen Nottay: It's incredibly scary what they're able to do now. The way that they're able to replicate celebrities, anybody that's a person that's known, even people that are unknown. Because if you take it back ever so slightly again to say crypto fraud or any fraud where the scammer is interacting with you on a video call, what they can do is they can shield their identity now by using a deep fake video. So they'll generate an avatar which basically sits on top of them so they can move around and the avatar moves with them, the mouth moves with them. It's very sophisticated, really scary. So if you do find yourself in conversation with a scammer, somebody who has reached out to you and is offering some business or crypto proposal, which by the way, I wouldn't recommend anyway. But if you do find yourself in those circumstances and you're speaking to somebody on a video chat, one of the clear ways to be able to tell that this person is a scammer is to ask the scammer to hold three fingers in front of their face because the technology doesn't allow for that. So if they refuse to hold the three fingers in front of their face, then that is a very clear indication that you are speaking to a scammer.

Iona Bain: What would happen if they did hold three fingers in front of their face?

Harleen Nottay: The avatar will disappear.

Iona Bain: So that's why you know this is a real video that you're watching right now.

Harleen Nottay: Exactly. I am who I say I am.

Iona Bain: And also AI romance scams.

Harleen Nottay: Yeah, this one is incredibly heartbreaking. I always find romance scams just particularly heartbreaking because you are really playing with somebody's emotions. Not only are you stealing their money, but you are getting them to really emotionally invest in you as a person. So AI has advanced this massively because they're using chatbots to have these conversations. So you don't need a scammer anymore to sit there and have this conversation. You're talking to a computer, which is so heartbreaking. And it just really advances that scam much further forward because the amount of time and energy that that scammer has to put into that type of scam now has gone right down. So it's become very appealing to them.

Iona Bain: And also presumably they can scale it up.

Harleen Nottay: Massively.

Iona Bain: And work on multiple victims at any one time.

Harleen Nottay: Absolutely. And that's the thing. And speaking with regards to scaling things up, one of the other ways that they're using AI is if they have any potential information on you, they can then sweep across data breaches, get more personal information, and they can also do mass phishing, email, all of that type of stuff. AI is an incredible technology. It is very, very useful in some regards, but unfortunately it is also very much being used by people who don't have good intentions.

Iona Bain: No. And another thing presumably that AI can help the fraudsters with is correcting their language.

Harleen Nottay: Very much so.

Iona Bain: Making it sound official, making it sound credible, implausible, because that used to be a really good spot in terms of looking out for fraud, spelling mistakes, things that aren't quite grammatically correct. And all of that is now changing so that it can be very, very deceptive.

Harleen Nottay: Absolutely. We saw this on the last series of Scam Interceptors that we were filming. I watched scammers go over email after email after email in their ChatGPT and just highlight the text and say, " Can you put this in a more professional tone? Can you correct this?" And ChatGPT will allow these scammers from the same IP address to do this over and over and over and over again, which the technology there, they have some responsibility. They should not be allowing people to be able to do that. But on the flip side of it, the fact that they are doing it and putting it out there, it's really scary to watch and see in real time.

Iona Bain: So with all that in mind, what are the practical simple things that we can try to do to protect ourselves online?

Harleen Nottay: One of the key things I would say is two- factor authentication. Two- factor authentication is really important because it just gives a second line of defence. So that just means that whenever you need to log into any social media banking app, wherever it is, it has to go through verification through either your email address or your text, your mobile number. So that can just help to safeguard things a little bit better. I'd also say having a good keen eye over your bank statements and your credit report, because if scammers are doing anything, this will of course show up in all of these places. So making sure you're keeping a good eye over these things, just good clean financial hygiene. Having a scam buddy. Now, this is just somebody that you have in your life that you trust, so you don't need to feel embarrassed about approaching any random person. You've got this one person in your life who knows the situation and they can just sense check everything for you. And it just helps to pull you out of the scammers world because scammers are forever going to try and isolate you and stop you from talking to people.

Iona Bain: Yeah. Absolutely. And is there a way to pay for things that will also ensure that you're protected from scams?

Harleen Nottay: Yeah. There definitely is. So credit cards are always a really good one because credit cards have things in place to be able to refund you a lot easier than if you're using your debit card. So credit card is always going to ... I would always say spending using your credit card is a good thing. And then also if you have a PayPal account, PayPal also has safeguarding in place to be able to help refund you money. If you have lost it in some sort of a way, they have protections in place. What I would not recommend ever doing is to do a bank transfer to anybody because that's where you're putting yourself in a very vulnerable position. And the protection with regards to the credit cards is if you spend over a hundred pounds on your credit card, that means that you have that safeguarding in place. So it just helps to keep everything in line.

Iona Bain: And are there key questions that you can ask yourself if you ever get approached by somebody with an offer or if you see something online that is tempting, what are the things that you need to really say to yourself before you jump in?

Harleen Nottay: First of all, you have to ask yourself what they're asking you to do, is that something any reasonable business or person would ask you to do? Slow down. There is no rush whatsoever, and that's what they're going to try and do. They're going to try and rush you. So if you slow it down and ask yourself the question, what they're asking, is it reasonable? Is a business going to ask me to put money on gift cards? Are HMRC going to ask me to transfer money? No, they're not. So first of all, slow it down. Don't react to the pressure. Hold your nerve because pressure tactics are synonymous in the scam world. Don't be scared to ask the scammer a question because that puts them under pressure and they're then going to have to react in the circumstances and they might slip up, which gives you a very clear indication that this person is not who they say they are.

Iona Bain: And also, if you have struck up a friendship or a relationship with someone online and they're asking for money, for whatever reason, at some stage, you are within your rights to say no.

Harleen Nottay: I think we are so polite here in British culture, and it's a beautiful thing. It's a wonderful thing to have manners and be polite, but also you need to think about safeguarding as well. You need to be thinking about your own welfare. It is okay to say no.

Iona Bain: And if someone has been the victim of a scam, what should they do once they become aware of that?

Harleen Nottay: The first thing they need to do is report it. You need to make sure you report it to the police. Second thing, you need to report it to your bank. You've got to let them know. And they will ask for things like police report incident numbers, and that will help to try and get your money back. Now, the reality is that it's difficult because the banks have put a lot of safeguarding things in place for themselves. They will say that it's for your benefit and it is for your benefit, but it is also to cover their own back. So you'll see now if you are setting up, say, a new payment person on your online banking, it might come up and say things like, " Is this a new person? Have they asked you to transfer money?" It'll come up with a checklist for you to refer to, and that is to cover their own selves. So you do need to report it to them immediately so they can try and trace the funds because the funds very quickly will move from your bank to the scammers bank to a mule account, which is a holding account that the scammers use to then transfer out of the country. So the quicker you let the banks know, the quicker they can try and trace it and they can try and get your money back.

But the reality is that you may need to then follow up with it going through the financial ombudsman to try and get those funds back, which is quite a long process, but it's not impossible. If you're in England and Wales, you're going to report it to Report Fraud, which is the new agency that has taken over from Action Fraud. And if you're in Scotland, you need to report it to Police Scotland. The reason why it's so important to report it immediately ... And I appreciate that the resources at the moment aren't necessarily there to be able to follow up with every single fraud report. But it helps to give us a realistic idea of what is going on in the scam space, in the fraud space, so that when the time comes, we can allocate the correct resources to helping fight this massive global problem.

Iona Bain: So whilst people go away, have a cup of tea, and wait for the kettle to boil, what is one practical step that they can take to ensure that they're protecting themselves from scams?

Harleen Nottay: The number one thing I would say is two- factor authentication. Please activate that on any of your social media accounts, your email, your online banking. I know there's only one, but a little additional one-

Iona Bain: I'll let you have it.

Harleen Nottay: ... that really does help is just be mindful about what personal information you have online. So I would say please don't put your pet's names online because that is just ... A lot of people use their pets and their passwords. Don't put your pet in your password. Don't put their name online. And the big one that people sometimes forget is there is a website called 192. com. And 192 will have all of your home address details, your home landline number. If you still have a landline, it will be on there because if you're a registered voter, those details automatically go straight onto 192. And it's a very simple process to remove it and it won't impact whether or not you get to vote. So if you are a registered voter in this country, pop onto 192, follow their guidelines on how to remove your personal details because that just keeps everything belt and braces.

Iona Bain: That's fantastic advice. Thank you so much, Harleen.

Harleen Nottay: Not a problem. Thank you, Iona.

Iona Bain: And that's a wrap for this episode. We really hope it's given you a deeper insight into some of the latest scams that are happening and how you can protect yourself and spot when something doesn't seem quite right. This is an episode that I'm hoping you're going to want to share with a friend or a family member to help them understand how they can stay safe for two. So please spread the word. And next time I'll be joined by GP, health educator and presenter Dr. Tosin to discuss how and where we should spend our hard- earned money when it comes to leading a healthy lifestyle.

This podcast is brought to you by L&G. It would be fab if you could share the podcast and help others get a little bit richer too. You can keep up with the show on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram @legalandgeneral. And if you've got a question or a topic that you would like answered on the show, please do get in touch on our socials because we love to hear from you. Until next time, see you soon, and thanks for listening.

Iona Bain: Hello, and welcome back to A Little Bit Richer with me, Iona Bain, brought to you by Legal & General, where we dive into the money decisions that shape your future. Now, unfortunately, scams are on the up, and if they haven't already, they could well affect you or someone you know. And with the rise in AI, it's becoming increasingly difficult to decipher the real from the fraudulent, from crypto scams to deep fakes, and even romance scams. The criminals are continuing to come up with creative and highly sophisticated ways to steal our dosh. And there is a common misconception that older people are more likely to fall victim to scams. So today we're explaining why this is simply not the case. We are deep diving into some of the latest and most prevalent scams that could affect us, the tricks the criminals use to deceive and confuse us, and importantly, how we can protect ourselves and spot those red flags.

And joining me to break everything down and ensure that we are up to speed on all things scams. Well, she's the perfect person for the job. We're talking today to Harleen Nottay, presenter and reporter for the BBC's award-winning Scam Interceptors. Welcome, Harleen.

Harleen Nottay: Thank you so much for having me, Iona.

Iona Bain: Well, thank you for coming in. We're going to start off with a very, very quick 30 second answer about why everyone needs to be aware of the latest scams, even if they've never been a victim of fraud. Are you ready to do this?

Harleen Nottay: Let's do it.

Iona Bain: All right, let's go.

Harleen Nottay: Whilst there might be the misconception that older people are more heavily targeted, the reality is that 20% of 18 to 34- year- olds have actually been deceived by a scammer versus 10% of over 35s. So you might not think you're going to be targeted, but if you're a younger person, you're being way more targeted and 10% more likely to actually fall victim to one of these scams.

Iona Bain: That was perfect. And really good to start with that reminder that actually younger people are vulnerable to scams. So let's talk through some of the newer, more prevalent types of scams, putting AI to one side for now. Of all of these, which ones might specifically affect millennials?

Harleen Nottay: The reality is that scams do impact everybody, and no matter what age you are, you are going to be targeted by some sort of a scam. With regards to millennials, things like job scams have been incredibly prevalent. Job scams are where scammers will use platforms like TikTok, Instagram, some sort of social media to draw you into doing small menial tasks, eventually getting to a point where you then need to invest some money to get your money back. Now, this is happening quite often, and it's really troublesome. Anytime you're in a position where any job or employer is saying to you that you need to put money in to get money back out, that is guaranteed a scam. There's not a lot of jobs that operate like that. So that is a number one massive red flag.

 Another issue that's impacting younger people are rental scams. And this is where scammers will put up postings, ads for sometimes properties that actually do exist. Sometimes they're Airbnbs and you will go along, you might even go to a viewing for an Airbnb thinking that you're going to a viewing for a property, and they will get you to invest six months upfront to try and secure. Obviously, we're in a market right now where rental properties are hot, hot stuff. It's difficult to get a property. So it is very, very easy to fall into this trap. And I would say with regards to this, do your due diligence, reverse image search. If that image is coming up on multiple different websites, just try and go through a reputable estate agent to make sure that you're not getting caught out in these pitfalls. And we've got investment in crypto scams. These are forever impacting people of all ages from an older demographic right down through to millennials. It's a massive problem.

Iona Bain: And you've got some figures that really illustrate the impact this is having on people. Talk me through how much is being lost to these scams every day.

Harleen Nottay: Yeah. Up to £2. 4 million was lost in 2025, according to City of London Police last year. It is really massive numbers. That breaks down to slightly more than £ 1, 600 per minute that has been lost to investment scams. It's a huge problem.

Iona Bain: If you are persuading somebody to put all their money into an investment scam, you can see why it's having this kind of financial impact.

Harleen Nottay: Massively. And the thing is as well is the platforms that these scammers are using are incredibly sophisticated. It would look like you are getting returns on the money that you're putting in, but it's the minute that you want to try and get that money out of that fake platform, that's where you're going to end up having problems. So you will plough lots of money into this platform thinking that you are getting these big returns when in actuality that's just not the case. And I would just say for any person that does want to invest their money into some sort of crypto or stock market, do your research. Don't invest into something that you don't understand. And if any company is guaranteeing you returns, huge red flag.

Iona Bain: Because actually there are no certainties with the stock market. And therefore anybody that says you will make this amount of money, it's too good to be true.

Harleen Nottay: Absolutely. Also, there is an issue with SIM swapping. Now, this is where scammers will actually replicate your number and put this onto another SIM. So it essentially deactivates the SIM in your phone because you don't actually have to have a physical digital SIM card in your phone anymore. There are eSIMs essentially. So it's easy for them to take that number and put it onto an eSIM in their own phone. They then have access to your social media apps via two- factor authentication, to your online banking. They might even have access to your contacts and it is causing a massive problem. If I got my figure correct, it's up by 35% in 2025. So it's a real up and coming scam.

Iona Bain: Wow. And how do you protect yourself against that particular scam? Because they don't actually physically need your SIM card. Is it the fact that they can just use your phone number? Once they've got that, that's when they can pull this off.

Harleen Nottay: Yes. And personal information on you. So that's why it's incredibly important to be very mindful about what information you put about yourself online and just not to be over- divulging.

Iona Bain: Interesting. So AI is becoming a massive part of our everyday lives. Obviously lots of people using it for good, but it's also being used by the scammers very, very effectively.

Harleen Nottay: Oh, yes.

Iona Bain: So let's chat about that. How is AI being used and what do we need to be aware of and how can we protect ourselves?

Harleen Nottay: There are many ways in which scammers are using AI. When it comes to particular scams, one of the most prevalent is voice cloning. So this is where the scammer will take your voice. If you've put that online in some shape or form, they can use that recording to then generate other recordings which sound just like you, targeting your loved ones and claiming that you're in some sort of an emergency, you need some emergency funds and putting the pressure on using the same tactics that we've seen with scammers time and time again, but just applying it differently with regards to obviously the voice cloning. And of course you're tapping into that emotional centre.

 If you hear your loved one's voice in pain, in distress, you are of course not going to stop and think about that rationally. You are just going to act. So voice cloning is a real problem. Now what I would say is one really easy way to keep yourself safe and keep all your family members safe is to set a safe word amongst your loved ones. And that is just very clean cut that when somebody is on the other side of the phone, if you use that safe word and they don't respond, they don't know what it is, you are on with a scammer.

Iona Bain: And deep fakes, I imagine as well, are becoming really sophisticated. I remember a couple of years ago doing a TV report where they created a deep fake of me and it was good, but it wasn't quite right and they weren't able to use my voice. That was just a couple of years ago. I'm absolutely certain now they would be able to replicate me quite effectively and use that for nefarious purposes. And that's very scary.

Harleen Nottay: It's incredibly scary what they're able to do now. The way that they're able to replicate celebrities, anybody that's a person that's known, even people that are unknown. Because if you take it back ever so slightly again to say crypto fraud or any fraud where the scammer is interacting with you on a video call, what they can do is they can shield their identity now by using a deep fake video. So they'll generate an avatar which basically sits on top of them so they can move around and the avatar moves with them, the mouth moves with them. It's very sophisticated, really scary. So if you do find yourself in conversation with a scammer, somebody who has reached out to you and is offering some business or crypto proposal, which by the way, I wouldn't recommend anyway. But if you do find yourself in those circumstances and you're speaking to somebody on a video chat, one of the clear ways to be able to tell that this person is a scammer is to ask the scammer to hold three fingers in front of their face because the technology doesn't allow for that. So if they refuse to hold the three fingers in front of their face, then that is a very clear indication that you are speaking to a scammer.

Iona Bain: What would happen if they did hold three fingers in front of their face?

Harleen Nottay: The avatar will disappear.

Iona Bain: So that's why you know this is a real video that you're watching right now.

Harleen Nottay: Exactly. I am who I say I am.

Iona Bain: And also AI romance scams.

Harleen Nottay: Yeah, this one is incredibly heartbreaking. I always find romance scams just particularly heartbreaking because you are really playing with somebody's emotions. Not only are you stealing their money, but you are getting them to really emotionally invest in you as a person. So AI has advanced this massively because they're using chatbots to have these conversations. So you don't need a scammer anymore to sit there and have this conversation. You're talking to a computer, which is so heartbreaking. And it just really advances that scam much further forward because the amount of time and energy that that scammer has to put into that type of scam now has gone right down. So it's become very appealing to them.

Iona Bain: And also presumably they can scale it up.

Harleen Nottay: Massively.

Iona Bain: And work on multiple victims at any one time.

Harleen Nottay: Absolutely. And that's the thing. And speaking with regards to scaling things up, one of the other ways that they're using AI is if they have any potential information on you, they can then sweep across data breaches, get more personal information, and they can also do mass phishing, email, all of that type of stuff. AI is an incredible technology. It is very, very useful in some regards, but unfortunately it is also very much being used by people who don't have good intentions.

Iona Bain: No. And another thing presumably that AI can help the fraudsters with is correcting their language.

Harleen Nottay: Very much so.

Iona Bain: Making it sound official, making it sound credible, implausible, because that used to be a really good spot in terms of looking out for fraud, spelling mistakes, things that aren't quite grammatically correct. And all of that is now changing so that it can be very, very deceptive.

Harleen Nottay: Absolutely. We saw this on the last series of Scam Interceptors that we were filming. I watched scammers go over email after email after email in their ChatGPT and just highlight the text and say, " Can you put this in a more professional tone? Can you correct this?" And ChatGPT will allow these scammers from the same IP address to do this over and over and over and over again, which the technology there, they have some responsibility. They should not be allowing people to be able to do that. But on the flip side of it, the fact that they are doing it and putting it out there, it's really scary to watch and see in real time.

Iona Bain: So with all that in mind, what are the practical simple things that we can try to do to protect ourselves online?

Harleen Nottay: One of the key things I would say is two- factor authentication. Two- factor authentication is really important because it just gives a second line of defence. So that just means that whenever you need to log into any social media banking app, wherever it is, it has to go through verification through either your email address or your text, your mobile number. So that can just help to safeguard things a little bit better. I'd also say having a good keen eye over your bank statements and your credit report, because if scammers are doing anything, this will of course show up in all of these places. So making sure you're keeping a good eye over these things, just good clean financial hygiene. Having a scam buddy. Now, this is just somebody that you have in your life that you trust, so you don't need to feel embarrassed about approaching any random person. You've got this one person in your life who knows the situation and they can just sense check everything for you. And it just helps to pull you out of the scammers world because scammers are forever going to try and isolate you and stop you from talking to people.

Iona Bain: Yeah. Absolutely. And is there a way to pay for things that will also ensure that you're protected from scams?

Harleen Nottay: Yeah. There definitely is. So credit cards are always a really good one because credit cards have things in place to be able to refund you a lot easier than if you're using your debit card. So credit card is always going to ... I would always say spending using your credit card is a good thing. And then also if you have a PayPal account, PayPal also has safeguarding in place to be able to help refund you money. If you have lost it in some sort of a way, they have protections in place. What I would not recommend ever doing is to do a bank transfer to anybody because that's where you're putting yourself in a very vulnerable position. And the protection with regards to the credit cards is if you spend over a hundred pounds on your credit card, that means that you have that safeguarding in place. So it just helps to keep everything in line.

Iona Bain: And are there key questions that you can ask yourself if you ever get approached by somebody with an offer or if you see something online that is tempting, what are the things that you need to really say to yourself before you jump in?

Harleen Nottay: First of all, you have to ask yourself what they're asking you to do, is that something any reasonable business or person would ask you to do? Slow down. There is no rush whatsoever, and that's what they're going to try and do. They're going to try and rush you. So if you slow it down and ask yourself the question, what they're asking, is it reasonable? Is a business going to ask me to put money on gift cards? Are HMRC going to ask me to transfer money? No, they're not. So first of all, slow it down. Don't react to the pressure. Hold your nerve because pressure tactics are synonymous in the scam world. Don't be scared to ask the scammer a question because that puts them under pressure and they're then going to have to react in the circumstances and they might slip up, which gives you a very clear indication that this person is not who they say they are.

Iona Bain: And also, if you have struck up a friendship or a relationship with someone online and they're asking for money, for whatever reason, at some stage, you are within your rights to say no.

Harleen Nottay: I think we are so polite here in British culture, and it's a beautiful thing. It's a wonderful thing to have manners and be polite, but also you need to think about safeguarding as well. You need to be thinking about your own welfare. It is okay to say no.

Iona Bain: And if someone has been the victim of a scam, what should they do once they become aware of that?

Harleen Nottay: The first thing they need to do is report it. You need to make sure you report it to the police. Second thing, you need to report it to your bank. You've got to let them know. And they will ask for things like police report incident numbers, and that will help to try and get your money back. Now, the reality is that it's difficult because the banks have put a lot of safeguarding things in place for themselves. They will say that it's for your benefit and it is for your benefit, but it is also to cover their own back. So you'll see now if you are setting up, say, a new payment person on your online banking, it might come up and say things like, " Is this a new person? Have they asked you to transfer money?" It'll come up with a checklist for you to refer to, and that is to cover their own selves. So you do need to report it to them immediately so they can try and trace the funds because the funds very quickly will move from your bank to the scammers bank to a mule account, which is a holding account that the scammers use to then transfer out of the country. So the quicker you let the banks know, the quicker they can try and trace it and they can try and get your money back.

But the reality is that you may need to then follow up with it going through the financial ombudsman to try and get those funds back, which is quite a long process, but it's not impossible. If you're in England and Wales, you're going to report it to Report Fraud, which is the new agency that has taken over from Action Fraud. And if you're in Scotland, you need to report it to Police Scotland. The reason why it's so important to report it immediately ... And I appreciate that the resources at the moment aren't necessarily there to be able to follow up with every single fraud report. But it helps to give us a realistic idea of what is going on in the scam space, in the fraud space, so that when the time comes, we can allocate the correct resources to helping fight this massive global problem.

Iona Bain: So whilst people go away, have a cup of tea, and wait for the kettle to boil, what is one practical step that they can take to ensure that they're protecting themselves from scams?

Harleen Nottay: The number one thing I would say is two- factor authentication. Please activate that on any of your social media accounts, your email, your online banking. I know there's only one, but a little additional one-

Iona Bain: I'll let you have it.

Harleen Nottay: ... that really does help is just be mindful about what personal information you have online. So I would say please don't put your pet's names online because that is just ... A lot of people use their pets and their passwords. Don't put your pet in your password. Don't put their name online. And the big one that people sometimes forget is there is a website called 192. com. And 192 will have all of your home address details, your home landline number. If you still have a landline, it will be on there because if you're a registered voter, those details automatically go straight onto 192. And it's a very simple process to remove it and it won't impact whether or not you get to vote. So if you are a registered voter in this country, pop onto 192, follow their guidelines on how to remove your personal details because that just keeps everything belt and braces.

Iona Bain: That's fantastic advice. Thank you so much, Harleen.

Harleen Nottay: Not a problem. Thank you, Iona.

Iona Bain: And that's a wrap for this episode. We really hope it's given you a deeper insight into some of the latest scams that are happening and how you can protect yourself and spot when something doesn't seem quite right. This is an episode that I'm hoping you're going to want to share with a friend or a family member to help them understand how they can stay safe for two. So please spread the word. And next time I'll be joined by GP, health educator and presenter Dr. Tosin to discuss how and where we should spend our hard- earned money when it comes to leading a healthy lifestyle.

This podcast is brought to you by L&G. It would be fab if you could share the podcast and help others get a little bit richer too. You can keep up with the show on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram @legalandgeneral. And if you've got a question or a topic that you would like answered on the show, please do get in touch on our socials because we love to hear from you. Until next time, see you soon, and thanks for listening.